BLASPHEMY OF FATIMA EXPOSED
Editor: Steve Van Nattan: Pope John Paul II has made all manner
of fuss over Our Lady of Fatima. This is one of the most far sighted
ploys the Roman Whore ever hatched, for Fatima was the daughter
of Muhammed, and the town Fatima in Portugal was named for here.
The courtship of Islam by John Paul II fits so very well with this
alleged apparition of Mary, for it will draw the whole Catholic
and Muslim world into one Holy piano covers and Rage as they stand on the
threshold of the Age of Antichrist.
The following article is a powerful discussion and very revealing.
Currie, Compass Distributors
A being, representing itself as Mary the mother of Jesus, made
an appearance at Fatima some years ago. This has been dismissed
by some as a demonic apparition that was not Mary at all. I was
asked to explain how a demon could make such an appearance and point
people to Jesus.
To begin with, the apparition did not actually point anyone
to Jesus. Rather, she promoted Mariolatry and the false sacramental
gospel of the Roman Catholic Church.
I found a page describing the appearance of pseudo-Mary at
Fatima. I have taken a few excerpts from this page to show how the
"Mary" and "Guardian Angel of Portugal" could not possibly have
God as their source.
The page says, "The Guardian Angel of Portugal appears to the
children and tells them to submit with patience to the sufferings
that will come to them. He tells them to pray and offer sacrifices
in reparation for the conversion of sinners."
The fact that the Roman Catholic Church consistently requires
sacrifices, beyond the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, proves
conclusively that the Roman Catholic Church is not Christian. At
least it does so for anyone with an inkling of understanding of
Of Jesus, blips 7:26-27 says: For such
an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate
from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not
daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his
own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when
he offered up himself.
What inseparably removes Roman Catholicism from Christianity
is that they do not believe Christís one-time sacrifice was enough,
as the Bible plainly says. He gave His life for our sins, once,
that is, one time, for all, that is, all sins. "All" does not refer
to "all people"; the subject of the sentence is not people, it is
Rather, Roman Catholicism has masses that supposedly re-sacrifice
Christ for sins daily. They further require acts of penance for
sins, they require baptism for (meaning in their case, "to obtain")
the forgiveness of sins, and partaking in the mass to sacrifice
for sins. One may spend a long time in "purgatory" if one has not
received "extreme unction", yet another sacrifice for sins. In their
funerals, they pray for the dead that their sins may be forgiven
in death, and make sacrificial payments in the funeral mass so the
dead one may be released from purgatory. All of it is false and
unnecessary for Christ made one atonement for all sins.
The document then describes the first appearance of "Mary"
to the children. "A Beautiful Lady, all of brilliant white, appears
to the children at Cova de Iria. Her hands were together as in prayer
and Rosary beads hung down between the fingers of her right hand."
Iíd like you to take a look at the image of "Mary."
Here we see a white European "Mary," complete with halo, as
regularly depicted by the Roman Catholic Church. How would these
poor, deceived children possibly recognize the real Mary, who was
a blipish peasant woman and looked nothing whatsoever like this Romanized
imagery? We know then, certainly, on the basis of physical appearance
alone, that these children were not really seeing Mary.
If it actually was Mary, surely she would not allow the children
to bow to her, as we see here in this picture. Revelation 22:8-9
tells us we should bow before no one but God. And
I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and
seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which
shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it
not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets,
and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Letís move on to the frankly insane concept of Mary herself
having a rosary. What is the rosary for? For saying "Hail Marys",
correct? Why, then, would Mary need to use a rosary? To "Hail" herself
or offer prayers to herself? Itís nonsense to any but the cultically
deceived. The document then goes on to reveal Maryís instructions.
"The children were instructed to: say the Rosary every day, to obtain
peace for the world and the end of piano covers."
Just saying the rosary is a serious violation of Scripture.
In Matthew 6:7, Jesus piano coversned, "And when you pray, do not use vain
repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be
heard for their many words." The rosary is an act of saying "hail
Mary" over and over again.
The act of saying a "hail Mary" is an act of worship topiano coversd
Mary that is also absolutely prohibited by Scripture. Matthew 4:10
says, Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee
hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy
God, and him only shalt thou serve.
This apparition was trying to take worship away from God, and
onto Mary. This conclusively proves that the apparition was of Satanic
origin, for it is a work of Satan to prompt people to worship someone
other than the Lord. It follows logically that the whole of the
Roman Catholic Church is of the same Satanic origin, since it officially
promotes Mariolatry (the worship of Mary through praying to her).
The document continues, "Lucia asked the Lady about two girls,
friends of the family, who had died recently, as she wanted to know
whether they had gone to heaven. The Lady replied that one of the
girls was in heaven but that the other girl would be in Purgatory
until the end of the world."
The very concept of Purgatory cannot be found in Scripture.
It is a payment for sins after death that is foolishness. We know
from blips 7:26-27 that Christís one time sacrifice for sins was
sufficient for all whom He has saved, which is identified elsewhere
in Scripture as those who believe in Him.
If you do not believe that Jesusí sacrifice was sufficient,
you do not actually believe in Jesus and need to repent immediately.
To believe in Jesus could be described as, "Forsaking All I Trust
Him." By forsaking all, we speak not only of sins, but of manís
pigheaded belief that some of his actions can lead to his saving
himself. We must trust Christ only, else we do not in fact trust
Him, or believe in Him, at all.
The document continues, "The Lady appears to the children and
when asked by Lucia what it was that she wanted of them, the Lady
replied that she wanted them to come to the same place on the thirteenth
day of the coming month, to recite five decades of the Rosary every
day and for Lucia to learn to read. The children understood from
this vision that the Immaculate Heart of Mary was outraged by the
sins of humanity, for which there must be reparation. Francisco
and Jacinta were told that they would soon be leaving for heaven."
We can know this was not Mary for several reasons from this
passage alone. The Catholics speak of "revering" Mary (they actually
worship her), but I think I revere Mary enough to believe she would
not lie or turn people to a false gospel. I do not for a moment
believe that Mary would violate the Scriptures about repetitive
prayers, worshipping God only, or espouse the false Catholic doctrine
of Maryís being "immaculate."
What many Christians do not understand is, the term "immaculate
conception" in the Roman Catholic Church does not refer to Jesus
Ė it refers to Mary. Or, "Mary the Immaculate", as some are given
to calling her. It is the belief that, for Jesus to be conceived
without sin, Mary had to be conceived without sin as well, so from
her conception, she was shielded from inheriting original sin. Therefore
she did not pass on original sin, or the sinful nature, to Jesus.
This is so immensely theologically flawed in itself as to render
the gospel useless. It is based on the false Catholic theology of
inherited sin. Catholics believe that children inherit sin itself,
not just a sinful nature, from their parents. That is why the Catholics
must rush their infants off to be baptized as soon as possible;
if their original sin is not forgiven by baptism, and they die,
they will go to hell. This sin is inherited because sex itself is
sinful, according to the Roman Catholic Church.
So, there somehow needed to be an additional level of protection
for Jesus. Not only could sex not be involved in his production,
but the effects thereof had to be miraculously erased from the production
of His earthly parent, Mary. These false beliefs came from the Greek
philosophical influence that crept into Christianity.
People who believe such tripe have no hope of ever understanding
the simple beauty of the gospel unless they repent. You see, what
the Catholics find deplorable and impossible to believe about Christ
is the very thing we must believe about Him: That He was fully God
and fully Man and that He was tempted in all ways, even as we are,
but without sin. They set up Jesus as a person who did not have
to contend with a human sinful nature, but He did, and defeated
it soundly. If He had not, His sacrifice would have been useless
for it could not have reconciled Man, as he really is, to God.
Not only that, but people who believe this sacramental gospel,
with acts like baptism somehow forgiving sins, could not hope to
understand the most basic things about the world. For instance,
it has often been asked, "How can God permit children to die of
starvation?" For the Catholic, who blindly believes the Church and
the doctrine that baptism is necessary for salvation, there is no
answer Ė the only conclusion could be that God hates man and does
not care about his well being, consigning them to hell without a
chance to be baptized. But for the Christian who thinks it through,
the death of children is an act of mercy by God, for He does not
hold children accountable for any sin until they reach an age of
accountability and ability to repent.
People think living to a ripe old age is "normal" for humans.
That is incorrect. On a global scale, the reality is most humans
die as infants. Now, consider where most of those infants die. Most
die in non-Christian countries, like India. Given the chance to
grow up, the vast majority of those Indian children would have committed
suicide of the soul by cleaving to Hinduism. However, because they
died as infants, God can be merciful to them because they have not
It is interesting that, in our remarkably sinful North American
culture, the death of infants is on the dramatic rise through abortion.
And even then, we can see the pattern. Who is dying through the
abortion epidemic? Infants who would not have been born into Christian
homes, and would have most likely rejected the Savior. What Paul
wrote is definitely true, And we know that
all things work together for good to them that love God, to them
who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28).
If God called one of these babies, He would not see them go through
life and end up separated through joining the Islamic, Hindu or
Buddhist religions, or any other religion that denies Christ.
There are no such answers in this world, if Catholic theology
is true (not to mention the theology of all the "baptismal regeneration"
churches). Roman Catholicism is a soul-robbing, festering sore of
a false religion that harvests millions of souls for Satan each
The document goes on, "When the Lady appeared this time her
first request was for the children to say five decades of the Rosary
every day in honour of Our Lady of the Rosary. ... The children
were told that to save sinners God wanted to establish a devotion
in the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary."
I hate to sound like a broken record, but once again, we see
repetitive prayer and false religion through the worship of Mary,
which we have already discussed. Isaiah 45:22 says,
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I
am God, and there is none else. Donít look to Mary. Mary
herself would never ask you to look in her direction. She, like
all others who believed in Jesus, would point you in His direction
The document continues, "Just before the Lady left she told
the children a final secret that has never been revealed. Lucia
wrote the secret out and Pope John XXIII opened this letter in 1960
but he decided that it would better not to reveal its contents to
the general public." This statement shows a strong aspect of cultic
behavior in the Roman Catholic Church.
When a cultic group, like the Roman Catholic Church, wishes
to target a person for mind control or "thought reform," a triangle
is placed around a person. The three points of that triangle are
Miracle, Mystery and Authority.
The "Miracle" is ideology imputing miraculous powers to leaders
or activities. In this story, saying the rosary is said to have
miraculous powers. In Catholic dogma, baptism and holy communion
are also attributed powers for the forgiveness of sin that Christ
never intended them to have.
The "Mystery" is secrecy obscuring actual beliefs and practices.
The popes will not say what the "third" prophecy of Fatima was,
so that no one can evaluate it on their own. There is also a real
mystery about what the Roman Catholic Church holds is truly necessary
for salvation. We know that the Roman Catholic Church does not say
faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, for they maintain
that good Hindus and Muslims can also be saved. So what exactly
do they believe? Who do they believe God is? Why donít they believe
the clear statements of the God of the Bible? We really don't know,
but we are supposed to believe that the leaders have secret knowledge
that transcends all that.
"Authority" is obviously a big part of the RCC cult scheme.
The Church is supposed to be infallible, and the pope is also supposedly
infallible and is chosen by God to lead the church through apostolic
succession. In all cultic cases, this perceived authority legitimizes
inordinate claims on peopleís time, talents, and resources. These
young people were given a requirement to spend a lot of time in
repetitive prayer and we can see, reading the whole document through,
that cleaving to the "Holy Mother Church" and saying the rosary
are requirements given even to the readers of the document. Too
bad they werenít directed to spend their time in Bible study instead;
they may have escaped the snare of Catholicism.
There are more excellent examples from this document of Roman
Catholic abuse of "Authority." The Bishop of Leira-Fatima declared
in a Pastoral Letter that the apparitions at Fatima were "devotions
worthy of belief." Who is he to tell anyone what to believe without
Scriptural authority backing him up? Pope Pius XII consecrated the
world and later Russia for the "Immaculate Heart of Mary." Unless
I am mistaken, Russia is a subset of the world and would have been
included in his first proclamation, but that piece of typical Catholic
illogic is beside the point. Who gave him the authority to do so?
Later, pope John Paul II rededicated the world to the "Immaculate
Heart of Mary," which makes it obvious that pope Pius XII did not
have the authority. So why would John Paul II have the authority?
It is obvious he does not, especially since Pius XII is in John
Paul IIís "line of succession."
Continuing on with the document, we read, "The Lady appeared
on this day instead and told the children to recite the Rosary every
day. The children were also told to pray for sinners and to make
many sacrifices for them as many souls go to hell because there
is nobody to sacrifice and pray for them."
What a laundry list of unscriptural trash! We've discussed
the non-necessity for new sacrifice in blips 7:26-27. Weíve discussed
Matthew 6:7 and its admonition against repetitive prayer. Weíve
shown how prayer and worship to any other than God is forbidden.
And now, we find this garbage about people going to hell because
others do not pray for them. This lie is held by too many evangelicals
John 6:37 says, All that the Father giveth
me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise
cast out. That means that whoever is going to be saved by
Jesus will invariably come to Jesus, and their salvation is secure
when they come. These are two things the Catholics don't believe,
Consider blips 10:11-14. And every
priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same
sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after
he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the
right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies
be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected
for ever them that are sanctified.
The Catholic Church pretends that people need to make sacrifices
over and over for people, because they "sin again" and thus need
more sacrifice. This is a lie. For by one offering, He has perfected
forever those who are being sanctified. They cannot be "unperfected,"
even by sin. Jesus has perfected them forever. If we donít believe
that, we do not believe the Bible or Jesus Himself.
The document continues, "For just as there still has to be
the conversion of hearts in Russia, our own hearts have cooled and
many hundreds of thoBlipnds, even millions, in North America have
turned away from the Holy Mother Church. We need to begin again,
if we have not already done so, to have recourse to the Most Immaculate
Heart of Mary which is outraged at the sins of `humanity' and for
which there must be reparation. Ö Throughout the narrative of the
Fatima events, the emphasis given to the Rosary by Our Lady cannot
I would hope that you do not overlook the fact that this Fatima
vision contradicts the whole tenor of the gospel message. Because
the fact is, the emphasis given to the Rosary by the Catholicís
"lady" can be overlooked. Deceived evangelicals overlook it every
time they claim the Roman Catholic Church is by any means a Christian
church and worthy of unifying with.
Now, many people attempt to validate the "Ladyís" appearance
by the fact that 70,000 people supposedly witnessed her. If you
read the document closely, however, you will learn that only the
same children actually witnessed her. The other people did see a
supernatural event, however.
The document says, "When the Lady appeared more than 70,000
people had gathered at the site. She told Lucia that she was the
Lady of the Rosary. Our Lady told Lucia that she wanted a chapel
built on the site and that she also wanted the Faithful to say the
Rosary every day. Lucia was told that World piano covers I would end soon
and as Our Lady left, the children were shown further visions that
included Our Lord and St. Joseph. As these visions were being seen
by the children, the sun began its well documented 'Dance' that
was seen by thoBlipnds of people present at the site. Our Lady had
performed the miracle that she had promised."
The sun's dance is a tactic God would not use. Matthew 12:38-41
says, Then certain of the scribes and of the
Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation
seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but
the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and
three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three
days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh
shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:
because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a
greater than Jonas is here.
If Jesus would not give a sign like the sun's dance then, why
on earth (or in heaven) would He do it now?
Another Marian apparition occurred in Egypt and very many people
saw the apparitions. From a different web document on Marian apparitions,
we read, "These apparitions attracted large crowds by night, sometimes
up to 250,000 people, they were Christian, blips, Moslems, unbelievers
and many others, it was a gift of Our Lady to all the nations. The
apparitions finally ended in 1971 leaving an atmosphere of unity
and peace and many people received miraculous healings there."
The first person to receive such a healing was a Muslim. But
did this healing actually come from God? Consider the common element
in the following verses of Scripture.
Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about,
and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy
faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that
Luke 5:20 And when he saw their faith,
he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy
faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter,
be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
Luke 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise,
go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
Finally, look at Matthew 13:58 And he
did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Here's the point. There were many unbelievers there who were
healed, including a Muslim who received healing. But throughout
the Bible, it is people's faith in Jesus Christ that makes them
well. Where there is unbelief, Jesus does not do many mighty works.
And with regard to bringing unity among Christians, blips, Muslims
and unbelievers, that is not a Biblical message. Although it is
a goal of the Roman Catholic Church, it is not a goal of Christ
and should never be a goal of Christians. Matthew 10:34-38 says,
Think not that I am come to send peace on
earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to
set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against
her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that
loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he
that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not
worthy of me.
In short, true believers will be at odds with unbelievers and
practices of different religions, not at unity with them. They must
follow Christ at the expense of relationships with these types.
If you will dig thoroughly into these appearances of Mary,
you can find many things that are counter to the overall message
of the Bible. One reason why "the Lady" might appear to all these
people is to help push ecumenical unity being sought by the Roman
Catholic Church with Protestant, Islam, Hindu and blipish religions,
so that there will be that one-world "harlot" religion. A demon
would certainly be willing to help out on a goal like that because
it would effectively end Christ-centered evangelism in the entire
world. It would be "religion-centered" and "man-centered" instead.
Not once, in any of these "Mary" appearances, is a thing said
about repentance -- people are allowed to continue on in their self-centered
and self-righteous religions, not turning back to God. Not a thing
on these pages points to Jesus Christ but only to the Roman Catholic
Church. I actually think it is very interesting that in all the
blabber, "Our Lady of Fatima" didn't say a single word about Jesus
Christ. That should tell you something.
I realize this plain speaking will inflame many Catholics,
some of whom will wish to e-mail me to convince me of their view.
However, this time, I will not answer such correspondence, not because
I am over-awed with their intellectual prowess, but because nothing
short of an act of repentance topiano coversd God can possibly help them.
If they can reject so many plain examples of how Marian apparitions
and the Catholic religion conflict with Bible teaching, they are
free to cleave to their religion and follow it all the way into
the bowels of hell; I shake off the dust of my feet at them. I would
much rather they repent, disassociate themselves with popery, and
live. I will certainly not waste my energies restating the obvious
to those Catholics who wish to cleave to religion rather than truth.
For more information on Roman Catholicism, see also Pope-pourri
For a wide variety of topics, see our TOPIC ARCHIVE
King James Bible
Some people found the above topic objectionable and claimed
it was inaccurate. What follows is my response to a Roman Catholic
priest who felt this article was the product of an "obvious lack
of research." This is an even more eye-opening revelation of the
heresy of Roman Catholicism.
I take it from the "FR." that you want to be referred to as
"Father," but I will respectfully decline, since such a title is
specifically forbidden by Matthew 23:9.
Not that I believe that this note will
do any good, but a member of my parish referred me to your web
I'm sorry the truth offends you. For my part, I think the note
has done a world of good, and I think I will post it alongside the
"Lady of Deception" article so others may read more about Catholicism.
First of all, I would ask that if you
are going to enter into a debate with the doctrines of Roman Catholicism
that you first learn what our church teaches. Your article "Our
Lady of Deception" is riddled with errors, misconceptions, and
an obvious lack of research on your part as to what the official
By the time we get to the end of this response, you can decide
if I am truly unresearched or if you are simply trying to intimidate
me into recantation with a number of inaccurate statements of your
I would recommend you reviewing a copy
of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which gives a basic statement
of Catholic belief. I have already.
You will not find all the philosophical,
theological, or scriptural reasoning (there are, however, other
sources for that) but at least you will see the basics of our
Yes, like the writings of Jerome, Augustine,
Thomas Aquinas, and other Catholic writers with whom I am familiar.
You took issue with the Marian apparition
at Fatima. Please realize that the Catholic Church has NEVER made
the material presented in an apparition part of the deposit of
faith. As a matter of faith, the strongest statement that the
church will make concerning an apparition is that the messages
are not in contradiction with faith or morals.
It seems that your statement is in contradiction with the truth.
On the pro-Catholic web site I drew my information from, it states,
"11. 1930: The Bishop of Leira-Fatima declares in a Pastoral Letter,
that the apparitions at Fatima are `devotions worthy of belief'."
Granted, there are some (well-meaning)
Catholics who I believe take Marian devotion overboard. However,
Mary's role is only to point us to Jesus, not to herself.
Well, as we saw from my article, and the page it refers to,
"Mary" did not say one word about Christ but quite a bit about Marian
prayer and devotion through the rosary. Now, in my book, if you
are devoted to someone you pray to, you are worshipping that person.
In your book, the New Catholic Catechism, we read:
971 "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic
to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin
with special devotion. ..." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the
Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome
of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.
I would have thought Christ was the epitome of the whole Gospel,
but you know, you Catholics differ with Biblical faith on a lot
Also, no Catholic is required to believe
in apparitions as a matter of faith. It is purely private revelation.
If Mary were to decide to appear to me (which she hasn't) I would
be the only one bound to believe since she was speaking to me,
not the whole world.
You would not be so bound! You would be required to validate
what she said to you against Scripture. Galatians 1:8 says, "But
though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Why won't Catholics do this? Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received
the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures
daily, whether those things were so.
If it was not offensive to the real apostles that their teachings
be questioned this way, why on earth would it be offensive to Catholics
who claim apostolic leadership?
Secondly, when you quote scripture
I would challenge you to ask yourself, "Where did this Bible that
I am reading come from? Who determined which gospels, which letters,
etc. would make up this book." Contrary to what you might believe,
the Bible did not just miraculously drop out of heaven.
It doesn't surprise me that a Catholic priest would deny inspiration
of the Scripture. But I think I may be reading more into your statement
than you intended.
The Bible is the Book of the Church.
We are not a "church of the book."
That's evident from your church's lack of adherence to Biblical
In other words, the church predated
the Bible. And the only two churches that can historically trace
themselves to New Testament times would be the Roman Catholic
and Eastern Orthodox churches.
Actually, even your own church's writings dispute that. The
president of the Council of Trent, Cardinal Hosius, wrote in 1524,
"Were it not that the baptists have been grievously tormented and
cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they
would spiano coversm in greater number than all the Reformers." This means
that Hosius counted "baptists" (which went under many names down
through the centuries) existed just as long as Catholicism.
I think I would correct also your statement that the church
predated the Bible. Obviously, only the New Testament portion is
predated by the church. The Old Testament portion predates the church.
However, the early church in Scripture bears no noticeable likeness
to the Roman Catholic Church. Rather, we know that the churches
did not form under an umbrella organization, the Catholic Church,
until 313. So Scripture certainly does predate the Catholic organization.
All Protestant denominations trace
their history to the Catholic Church in the West.
In the case of Baptists, which are not technically "Protestant,"
they do so erroneously. In the case of Church of Christ and Brethren,
which are "restorationist" churches, they do not trace their lineage
back to Rome either. The Church of Christ originally claimed that
Rome was apostate.
I realize that the "Reformed" variations of Christianity come
from the Western Church, in that they reflect many Catholic errors
such as episcopal hierarchy, infant baptism and church-state religion.
However, you must have had Baptist teachers who claimed they were
part of the Reformation as well. Anabaptists predated the reformation
and traces of the faith can be found down through history. Only
in England did the Baptist faith come following the Reformers. Unfortunately,
many Baptists (especially people in the SBC) only go back to England
when they recount their history.
It was THE CHURCH that determined which
Gospels "made it" into the Bible, since there were many, many
gospels floating around.
I am apiano coverse of the New Testament apocryphal works as well. However,
the "church" that determined the canon of Scripture predated the
Catholic organization. All the Catholics did was place the seal
of approval on the books that were already the de-facto standard.
Some regions had a few more books than today's canon, some less.
The regions together agreed on a canon simply by collecting their
various opinions surrounding the genuineness of the books in question.
Please don't think that I believe that
the Catholic Church is flawless. Historically we have had our
share of characters that made a mess of things. As a convert from
the Baptist faith, and now a Catholic priest, I am convinced that
is precisely why the Church is of God. If we were only a human
institution we would have folded centuries ago considering the
various scandalous behaviors that some of our leaders displayed.
That's really not very sound reasoning. Consider your own logic.
Hinduism predates Christianity, but it still exists; does that make
it of God? Taoism and Buddhism predate Christianity by centuries.
Does their continued existence mean they are of God? Islam has existed
for about 1200 years; does that mean Islam is of God?
At this point, I'd like to call attention to the fact that
the Roman Catholic Church actually does believe Islam is of God
and that Islamic people will be saved, despite the Bible's repeated
doctrine that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation.
Quoting from your catechism, "841 The plan of salvation also
includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst
whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham,
and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's
judge on the last day."
So I understand that you would therefore contend that Islam
is of God. Truly Peter wrote when he said, But
there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall
be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable
heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon
themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1).
I bet not many Catholics know that Muslims are "Christians
too." False teachers among them brought in damnable heresies. This
one even denies the Lord that bought them, for it allows salvation
to those who deny Jesus Christ as Lord. I think the swift destruction
is probably faced in the afterlife, judging from the fact that the
Roman Catholic Church is so old.
Yet Christ is the Head of the Church.
The pope is only the visible head. Hey, the buck has to stop somewhere
and we believe that the Holy Spirit is with us to insure that
we don't stray too far, regardless of the human shortcomings of
the pope at any given time.
There are human shortcomings in a person who can make ex cathedra
proclamations that are considered to be infallible? That's not a
really comforting thought for Catholics, I bet!
Why do you think a human head is really necessary? Is God powerless?
It reminds me of blip, when they installed a king in the Old Testament
instead of allowing God to rule. 1 Samuel 8:7 says, And
the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people
in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee,
but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
Have you not rejected God in giving yourselves a human head?
No, the church is to be without a king except Christ.
If you believe the Holy Spirit keeps you from straying, why
will you ignore His words in 1 Timothy 4:1-3?
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that
in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed
to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in
hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding
to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created
to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know
Forbidding marriage: Marriage is forbidden for Catholic priests,
nuns and monks.
Abstaining from food: Remember the admonition against eating
meat on Fridays?
Hypocrisy of men who speak lies: Your church at once states
that baptism is necessary for salvation, and at the same time that
unbaptized Muslims can be saved. That's only one example of a hypocritical
Seducing spirits: We can see from my article that the version
of "Mary" that appeared there drew people hard away from Biblical
Doctrines of demons: Prayer and devotion to people and things
other than God. One known doctrine of a demon was identified by
Christ in Matthew 4:10, when He said, Then
saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
The Roman Catholic Church supports prayer to Mary according
to the catechism (I repeat):
971 "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic
to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin
with special devotion. ..." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the
Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome
of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.
Peter was given the keys to the kingdom
by Christ. Certainly when Peter died the keys weren't thrown away!
Peter wasn't the brightest of individuals either, as scripture
attests. Yet God was able to use him anyway!
If Peter gave the keys to the Catholic popes, he did throw
them away, for no one in history has a more bloody legacy than Catholic
popes with the possible exception of Adolf Hitler. When we look
at the keys of the kingdom, however, it is awfully interesting to
me that the Roman Catholic Church needs to ignore the actual tenses
of the Greek verbs in order for their doctrines about them to come
to pass. For what the Bible actually says at Matthew 16:19, says,
And I will give unto thee the keys of the
kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall
be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall
be loosed in heaven.
The popes say they can change the mode of baptism, for example,
because what they bind on earth will be bound in heaven, following
bad translations. The truth of the Greek is the reverse, and a good
example of it taking place is the way God showed Peter that salvation
had come unto the Gentiles. What Peter then bound on earth had already
been bound in heaven.
Mary isn't the center of our worship
- Christ is. Each time I receive him in the Eucharist I am strengthened.
We believe the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity
of Christ. No, we are not cannibals! The Christ we receive is
the RISEN Christ, not the dead Christ. We are not Killing Christ
over and over again on our altars. We are participating in the
ONE sacrifice for which Jesus atoned for our sins. Yes, it's the
bloody sacrifice of Calvary in an UNBLOODY manner. Christ knows
no time or space. We received his RISEN body as nourishment ...
The Eucharist is a sign of God's presence to us ... a reminder
that God never leaves us.
Okay, so here's a question. How come atonement for sin knows
time and space, according to your church's doctrines, if the sacrifice
for sins knows no time or space? Surely you agree with your own
Catholic doctrine that the sacraments remit sin. Surely you agree
with your own church's stated doctrines to that point:
1414 As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation
for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual
or temporal benefits from God.
Here's one from John Hardon's "The Question and Answer Catholic
Catechism" (Garden City: Image, 1981).
"Are the sacraments necessary for salvation? According to the
way God has willed that we be saved the sacraments are necessary
How do you then answer the Scriptures from blips that state,
"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;" If one sacrifice suffices for
all time, on what basis do you people claim that people need to
receive Eucharist as a sacrifice at all? You can say, "It's the
same sacrifice," but according to the Bible, the sacrifice was only
offered once. Your practice simply does conflict with Scripture.
Your catechism states:
1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist
are one single sacrifice: ... "In this divine sacrifice which is
celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once
in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered
in an unbloody manner."
To quote John Knox: "How can you deny the opinion of your Mass
to be false and vain? You say it is a sacrifice for sin, but Jesus
Christ and Paul say, The only death of Christ was sufficient for
sin, and after it resteth none other sacrifice... I know you will
say, it is none other sacrifice, but the self same, save that it
is iterated and renewed. But the words of Paul bind you more straitly
than that so you may escape: for in his whole disputation, contendeth
he not only that there is no other sacrifice for sin, but also that
the self same sacrifice, once offered, is sufficient, and never
may be offered again."
That effectively answers the statement from your catechism,
does it not?
You claim that you offer no new sacrifices; then, how do you
explain this teaching from Mr. Hardon's "The Question and Answer
"How does the Church communicate the merits of Christís mercy
to sinners? The Church communicates the merits of Christís mercy
to sinners through the Mass and the sacraments and all the prayers
and good works of the faithful."
The Mass is a sacrifice that communicates the merits of Christ's
mercy, but so are the sacraments according to this. I suppose it's
inaccurate? Or from your catechism:
1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed
by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation
with God and with the Church.
What is sacrifice if not a means of reconciliation? Is there
a means of reconciliation other than sacrifice?
You do offer sacrifices other than the sacrifice of Christ.
Why not admit it and be done with it? Why charge me with inaccuracy
and ignorance when I can show you your teachings from your own catechism?
Regarding babies, Catholics aren't
obliged to "rush" their children to be baptized. If a child dies
before baptism that child goes to be with God. Baptism is necessary
for salvation, but certainly God wouldn't count it against a child
who was unable to be baptized!
I guess they don't teach logic at Roman Catholic seminaries.
Something is either necessary or it isn't. As Malachi 3:6 says,
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore
ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. That Scripture predates
the church, incidentally. If God requires baptism for salvation,
that's it -- God requires baptism for salvation.
Historically we acknowledge three types
of baptism: water, blood, and desire. Water is obvious. Blood
is martyrdom before baptism (which was not uncommon in the first
centuries among those who were in the process of converting to
Christianity in the Roman Empire when Christianity was outlawed).
Desire is when the parents or the individual desired baptism but
were not able to follow through in a timely manner.
Consider this. Baptism is a transliteration of the word baptizo
for "immersion". So what you are saying to me is, you immerse in
water (Catholics sprinkle, which is not even an immersion); you
immerse in blood and you somehow manage to immerse in desire which
is not something you can even immerse in!
You can see that Catholic doctrine is built on lie after lie,
because first we have to lie about the very definition of the Greek
term "baptizo" to even continue with that line of discussion. I'm
not rightly sure what "baptize" means to you -- it's yet another
sacrifice for sin, obviously -- but what it means in the original
language is "immerse." You have to depart from the original meaning
of the word you base your doctrine on in order to explain it. Can't
you see there's something desperately wrong with that?
There is no limbo (contrary to some
popular belief) - just heaven and hell as our ultimate destinies.
I understand there is some question even about that. Didn't
the pope recently say that heaven is not a place? I understand the
recantation of limbo occurred in the sixties; is this a new recantation
of the existence of heaven today?
Purgatory is another issue - but only
for those who are heavenbound. Most of us will need some purification
before we see God face to face. To be emptied of those things
which we cling to other than God. Yes, some popular piety made
it sound like a jail term when using descriptions of years and
hours to describe the time spent there. And some made it sound
like a "temporary hell." Those are not the preferred terms anymore.
Some things changed after Vatican II. Read the Vatican II documents.
You might be surprised (although no DOCTRINAL changes were made).
By claiming that we need more purification, you are saying
a number of things I think you should rethink, and I mean, in emergency
fashion. Because what you are saying speaks terrible blasphemies
But now the righteousness of God without
the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in
Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission
of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare,
I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and
the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [Reference:
You are first of all claiming that Jesus sacrifice was not
enough for all of your sins; but the Bible uses the word "propitiation"
(Greek "hilasmos", which means to "to reconcile" or "make atonement").
Therefore, if you actually believe in Christ, your atonement for
sin is already made; your reconciliation is already made.
Now, this propitiation is declared here to be a demonstration
of God's righteousness. So, in saying that you need purgatory, you
are denying that God is righteous, because it is a demonstration
of God's righteousness that He fully atoned for your sin. That's
quite a charge to lay on God. I wouldn't want to have it against
me at the judgment.
Believe me, I write this in all charity.
I have idea what your religious affiliation is although I have
friends in almost every Christian denomination: Baptist, Methodist,
Presbyterian, Evangelical, Lutheran, Episcopal, etc. We are not
looking for form one "harlot" religion as you say. We are just
looking to get past some of the nonsense we've been clinging to
for 350 years! While we have our differences in theology, we do
hold our faith in the resurrection of Christ in common!
We have an entirely different definition of faith. I believe
that when Christ said on the cross, "It is finished," it really
was finished. I believe in trusting Christ only for salvation, and
if I look to my good works or those of saints, or to the denomination
I am affiliated with, I condemn myself as one who does not trust
in Christ alone and His finished work on the cross.
To give Mary evil titles like co-redemptrix, the doctrine that
she is our redeemer along with Christ and Christ alone is not our
redeemer, and to name her our mediator, is to deny Christ's identity
as our only redeemer and our only mediator with God. I know, you're
going to cry "inaccurate," so here's your catechism reference:
969 "... Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving
office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts
of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked
in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress,
blips 12:24 identifies Jesus as the sole mediator of the
New Covenant. And to Jesus the mediator of
the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh
better things than that of Abel.
You are either dishonest or uninformed about the goals of your
own church with regard to restoring a one-world church. From your
820 Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning.
This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something
she can never lose ...The desire to recover the unity of all Christians
is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.
And if you weren't trying to create a "one world church", you
should be, considering this belief:
834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion
with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity."
"For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole
Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in
So, let's be honest, shall we? Your church wants to create
a one world church, which judging from your catechism would include
even Muslims. That would give it all the Scriptural qualifications
of a "harlot" church.
If you want to get past nonsense, get past 1800 years of Roman
Catholicism and get back to the Bible. I don't know why the plain
truth of the Bible is not the basis of the efforts at reconciliation,
but rather, "agreement to disagree." As I have demonstrated, Catholic
doctrine is quite dangerous to the soul. If I am dutiful topiano coversd
Christ, I will oppose it; if I deny Christ, I will sit idly and
let fellow believers be victimized by organizations like the Catholic
These reconcilation attempts are also typical of Catholic illogic.
There cannot be multiple truths. There is true, and there is false.
But you allow things such as Islam, which is evidently false, and
Fatima, which would certainly seem counter-biblical to me, to be
believed by whomever wishes.
One of the reasons Catholics are hard to pin down is their
doctrines are internally self-contradictory. I mean, right here
we see that you can be saved if you are Islamic and unbaptized,
but baptism is necessary for salvation. I mean, if I were to take
your belief that baptism is necessary for salvation and refute that,
you'd come back and say, "We don't believe that, because even Muslims
can be saved." (I've actually had this tactic used on me by one
of your fellows.) There's always an answer in a doctrine as twisted
and self-contradictory as yours, as long as your whole doctrines
are not taken into account.
When something contradicts the whole tenor of the Bible, you
say things like, "Well, you don't have to believe it." That was
your response to the Fatima apparition. I'm not "required" to believe
If you were a shepherd, would you allow poison into the feed?
No. You wouldn't say to the sheep, "Oh, by the way, you don't have
to eat that poison. You can eat around it." No, you would take the
poison out of the feed. So as a shepherd of Christ's church, why
would you not purge out false teachings?
I would challenge you to read a book
entitled Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating. It might
clear up some misconceptions. Also, Setting the Record Straight:
What Catholics Really Believe by the same author.
I think I've shown I don't really have the misconceptions you
allege. Actually, I am well used to the tactic of charges of ignorance
and inaccuracy, which is why I remain prepared as I do to answer
detractors such as yourself.
I would challenge you to read the Bible, and rather than twist
it to a Catholic interpretation, read it for what it really says.
I assure you, the Author is a much more learned and reliable fellow
than even Karl Keating.
If you have any questions, or wish
to engage in a dialogue I would welcome your questions and comments.
I think I'll save the dialogue for people like the evangelicals
who signed the "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" agreement.
You will note that I have included every word from your original
e-mail interspersed with my comments so this is a reliable account
of our conversation. I believe the foregoing provides a sufficient
outlet for your attempts to call into question the article, "Our
Lady of Deception."
Our Lady of Deception is Copyright © 1999 by Compass Distributors
All Scripture in the article Our Lady of Deception taken from The
Holy Bible: King James Version
Take a look at some other articles and some freepiano coverse at the
Web Site of Compass
APPLICATION OF FATIMA
May 30, 2000
The man who is serving a life sentence for the shooting of Pope
John Paul II is requesting clemency, following the Pope's revelation
that the third secret of Fatima was a prophetic vision of his assassination
Mehmet Ali Agca argues that since his crime was "preordained,"
he should be absolved of all responsibility. The 43-year-old Turk,
who is in prison in Ancona on Italy's east coast, envisions a holy
life for himself, as a preacher spreading the message of Fatima.
Agca sent a letter to the Pope pleading "Your Holiness, help
me" on May 13, the 19th anniversary of the shooting and the day
the Vatican disclosed the third secret of Fatima. He followed it
up with a telegram five days later on the Pope's 80th birthday.
"I am hoping for the diplomatic intercession of the Vatican [for
my release]," he told Reuters in a recent interview. "The Pope is
not the only one who makes sacrifices and dedicates his life to
One of the bullets fired is placed in the crown of the statue
of the Virgin Mary at Fatima.
TO "WINDSWEPT HOUSE"
AND THE REAL THIRD SECRET as of July 1